How to achieve sharper negatives with less grain

I used to use Pyrocat HD, and once did direct comparison tests with it and Perceptol at 1+3 . Film was 35mm FP4. There was little if any difference between them. Both were excellent. I stuck with Perceptol because it is easier to get.

Alan
 
Martin Henson said:
You don’t have to use semi stand using 510 pyro, you can use it with normal standard Ilford agitation method, it’s ready mixed, economical at 1to 100 and last nearly for ever as a working solution. As regards semi stand, using its not rocket science, invert for 1 min, at 10 mins 1 inversion and empty at end ti
Click to expand...
Semi stand is easy to do its just designed to be used for special circumstances and not as an every day developer, Not used properly and you are going to end up loosing contrast in the mid-tones.
 
Alan Clark said:
I used to use Pyrocat HD, and once did direct comparison tests with it and Perceptol at 1+3 . Film was 35mm FP4. There was little if any difference between them. Both were excellent. I stuck with Perceptol because it is easier to get.

Alan
Click to expand...

Never used Perceptol mainly because I have quite a bit of Pyrocat HD here. The difference between Pyro 510, Pyrocat and Perceptol is more than likely going to be so negligible to the naked eye for a home user.
 
Thanks to everyone for all the info, really informative. It’s interesting to read differing opinions and exactly what I was looking for.
 
Alan Clark said:
I used to use Pyrocat HD, and once did direct comparison tests with it and Perceptol at 1+3 . Film was 35mm FP4. There was little if any difference between them. Both were excellent. I stuck with Perceptol because it is easier to get.

Alan
Click to expand...

Alan, at what speeds do you rate FP4 and HP5 for developing in Perceptol?
 
Hi Toby,
From your question I assume you know that Perceptol stock solution doesn't deliver full box speed. But it does seem to when diluted to 1+3. So at a dilution of 1+3 I would rate FP4 at 125 and HP5 at 400. However, I really like to be taking photographs in hazy sunshine, so my films get reduced development to keep negative highlight densities down. This also brings midtones down a bit. I like these nice and bright, so to avoid them getting suppressed I give an extra stop of exposure, i.e. rate the film at half its box speed. This brings the midtones back up to a nice level.
I have to say that I think FP4 in Perceptol 1+3 gives a wonderful tonality. There is no compression of midtones when you do the compensating development as described above. Instead you get nice bright and well separated midtones.
People talk a lot about grain and sharpness. But when you have a framed picture hanging on a wall, you have to go right up to it before you are aware of grain and sharpness. But the tonality is plain to see from right across the room.
Sorry to go on.....

Alan
 
I have nearly always used ID11 at 1 to 1 dilution on 'a use-once-and-throw-away' basis for as long as I remember. (At least since the 'real' Rodinal was taken off the market. The 1 to 3 dilution apparently gives slightly increased sharpness, but at the expense of tonal compression. There was no mention of any affect on grain. These are not my words but from an Ilford publication on line. Also the development times tend to increase dramatically.
 
John King said:
I have nearly always used ID11 at 1 to 1 dilution on 'a use-once-and-throw-away' basis for as long as I remember. (At least since the 'real' Rodinal was taken off the market. The 1 to 3 dilution apparently gives slightly increased sharpness, but at the expense of tonal compression. There was no mention of any affect on grain. These are not my words but from an Ilford publication on line. Also the development times tend to increase dramatically.
Click to expand...
You don't get tonal compression with ID11 at 1+3. It delivers lovely bright open midtones. Rodinal, despite having a reputation to work well as a compensating developer, is nowhere near as good. It compresses midtones, giving a much more drab look. When I did comparative tests with these developers, it showed up very clearly. I used to use Rodinal quite a lot. But after seeing how much better diluted ID11 was, I stopped using Rodinal. ID11, at 1+3 is also sharper than Rodinal, as I was surprised to discover when I did the tests.

Alan
 
Alan I was only quoting from an Ilford publication. I would have thought they would know what was what.
 
Alan Clark said:
Hi Toby,
From your question I assume you know that Perceptol stock solution doesn't deliver full box speed. But it does seem to when diluted to 1+3. So at a dilution of 1+3 I would rate FP4 at 125 and HP5 at 400. However, I really like to be taking photographs in hazy sunshine, so my films get reduced development to keep negative highlight densities down. This also brings midtones down a bit. I like these nice and bright, so to avoid them getting suppressed I give an extra stop of exposure, i.e. rate the film at half its box speed. This brings the midtones back up to a nice level.
I have to say that I think FP4 in Perceptol 1+3 gives a wonderful tonality. There is no compression of midtones when you do the compensating development as described above. Instead you get nice bright and well separated midtones.
People talk a lot about grain and sharpness. But when you have a framed picture hanging on a wall, you have to go right up to it before you are aware of grain and sharpness. But the tonality is plain to see from right across the room.
Sorry to go on.....

Alan
Click to expand...

Not at all, I find this interesting and informative. With one stop over and a 1 + 3 dilution, what are your dev times on HP5 and FP4?
 
Toby Webster said:
Not at all, I find this interesting and informative. With one stop over and a 1 + 3 dilution, what are your dev times on HP5 and FP4?
Click to expand...
Dev times with Perceptol 1+3 are rather long. Barry Thornton, in his book "Elements" said it was safe to up the temperature to 24 degrees C. to give shorter times. I have found this works well. HP5 gets 14 minutes. FP4 gets 12 minutes. Perceptol 1+3 at 24 degrees C. This is for film given one stop over exposure and taken in sunny conditions.

Alan
 
For many years I processed FP4 in Ilford's Ilfosol - a one shot developer used at 1:9
I have used this for 35mm, 120 and 5x4 - altering processing times through an adapted zone system which supported my darkroom printing. Always happy with the results.
Paul
 
The only problem I have found with Ilfosol it has a life, once opened of only slightly longer than a politicians promises!

Not a lot of good for me as my throughput of B&W is not a lot, I am using more colour Neg film.
Good old ID11 lasts for months and months and never seems to give any problems.
 
John King said:
The only problem I have found with Ilfosol it has a life, once opened of only slightly longer than a politicians promises!

Not a lot of good for me as my throughput of B&W is not a lot, I am using more colour Neg film.
Good old ID11 lasts for months and months and never seems to give any problems.
Click to expand...
This is my ID11 and still going strong, less than a litre left now though (I know it looks like ID12 but thats the curve on the box ).
ID11.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top